Ever feel like meetings get in the way of productivity? They don’t have to. Discover time-saving ways to structure and conduct project meetings that generate new ideas, build strong strategies, and deliver solid decisions.
In this class, you’ll learn how to:
Brett Harned: Hey, welcome back to the art and science of leading projects. I hope you're ready to jump right in. How does it make you feel when I say that? Oh wait, let me say it again. Wait, are you guys bleeping me? Come on and meetings are not a bad word. Sure. They can make you feel burdened, annoyed, and even defeated all at once, but they don't have to, trust me. I've totally been there and empathize with anyone who is feeling like meetings get in the way of productivity. I honestly was once in a situation where I was in meetings for most of my day managing a team and managing projects and ended up doing actual work early in the morning or late at night when I was free.
Brett Harned: But should have been spending time for myself or with my family. I hit a point where I realized that I could change the situation by actually making people think about how they were proposing to use others time. Simply asking, are you sure you need a meeting for that? Was a really good way to get started. That simple question turned into a new way of thinking about structuring and conducting meetings. So I'm going to share some of my ideas with you today. Just wanted you to know that I think this is a really personal topic for everyone. Because at the end of the day, this class is about saving time or using the time we have to work on ourselves and be happy.
Brett Harned: Also, I should mention this, you'll still be in meetings after this class, but those meetings don't have to suck. In fact, meetings can help you do some amazing things like generate new ideas, build stronger strategies, and facilitate solid, lasting decisions on the good work that you're doing. And there's no one saying you can not enjoy doing that. We often forget that meetings should work for us. Meaning they're tools that help us to do a lot of different things in our organizations.
Brett Harned: If you feel like meetings are dragging you down, you have to snap out of it and fix the problem. Because the minute a meeting is not working for you is the minute you start wasting time and being ineffective. And that's when those bad habits like working late, feeling frustrated or angry or even resentful can creep into your life at work and your life at home. It's also important to remember that everyone is involved and responsible for making meetings good. A lot of what I'll present today are things you can take away as a team lead or meeting leader, but keep in mind that when you attend meetings you're responsible for making it just as excellent as your own meetings by being engaged, following the guidance of the facilitator and working to meet the goals of the meeting.
Brett Harned: Okay. I think you get where I'm going here. Today we're going to cover a lot of points that will help you to identify the need for a meeting, prepare for it and facilitate it. I'll present a lot of ideas, show you some features in team TeamGantt that will help you to communicate about meetings and hopefully lead you to some new practices. First I want to talk about how to decide if you actually even need meeting. Just scheduling a meeting can be really difficult. We have to deal with aggressive timelines, navigating issues, dealing with needy stakeholders and coordinating people and their busy schedules.
Brett Harned: Plus you have to deal with internal factors. For instance, in some organizational cultures, meetings are seen as unnecessary or bad. In others, they're healthy places to exchange ideas or even just to get work done. Whether you think they're good or a hassle, you should know that you as the project manager can help determine the time of length agenda and the value of the meeting. But before you just throw something on the calendar, it's best to think strategically about your meeting. Part of the reason a lot of people sigh or grunt at the thought of a meeting is because they can be seen as an interruption in their day or they think the meeting could have been done over email.
Brett Harned: So think about it. If you're working with a team who's making a product, they need a good amount of time to just sit down and focus on what they're making. A meeting about something peripheral to the project can definitely throw their concentration off really quickly. So how can you determine if a meeting is actually needed? I'm going to talk through these four points that'll help you to determine the need for a meeting. First, it may seem silly, but going into a meeting, knowing what you want to get out of it will help you to make decisions on who should be there, when it should happen and how long it might take.
Brett Harned: Before you schedule anything, ask yourself, what's the goal of the meeting and do we actually need a meeting to hit that goal? Then look back at the goal. Is it something that your entire team should be involved in? Be sure to protect your time as well as your teams. The last thing you want to do is pull someone into a meeting if they're not actually needed. So think about it this way. Will this person talk in the meeting? If the answer is no, then they're off the hook. And this might sound ridiculous, but it's been done to me so many times that I have to mention it. Never double booked someone for a meeting.
Brett Harned: If someone's unable to make a meeting and you can't find another time, approach them and ask them if they're okay with missing the meeting. Promise, thorough meeting notes and offer a followup if you just need to make the meeting happen and if that person is secondary to the conversation at hand, even better. You also have to ask what is needed to make this meeting a success. That'll prompt you to give attendees everything they'll need for this meeting in advance. Your best bet is to attach the information to the meeting invitation. This can include anything from advanced notes, handouts, documents for review. You can think of other things as well.
Brett Harned: The more prep you can provide, the more productive the meeting will be. Then think about when the meeting needs to happen. Does this meeting have to happen today or tomorrow or even next week? Think back to that meeting goal. How will it impact your project? The decisions that are being made, the people in the meeting and the work that they have going on, your clients, your budget, and your timeline. There's a lot to think about there. Project managers often think every issue is the most important, but when it comes to determining the best timing or if a meeting can wait, take the time to think through those impacts and create priorities.
Brett Harned: Lastly, how much time do we need? Again, protect that time. If you only need 15 minutes, take it. If you need an hour and a half, that's okay too. Be sure to communicate the intent and value of your meeting to your attendees so they come in knowing that you're not wasting their time. Remember, you're the lead and you can control your calendar. If a meeting will stress your calendar or your teams, you can take responsibility for finding a better time. Okay. That might seem like a lot of information to think through just to set up a meeting, but if you want to run better meetings, you'll do your due diligence before just throwing something on the calendar.
Brett Harned: So think through those things and chances are it will only take you a few minutes and just think spending those few minutes wisely will set you up for success. So this is going to be a pretty short section, but I do think this one's so important. I'll talk about agendas a lot in this presentation, but I promise it's because they can help you in so many ways. One of the things that I've observed with teams who often feel overburdened by meetings is that most of their meetings are simply just added to their calendars without a lot of context. No agenda, no preparation, nothing. No wonder they hate meetings. I would too.
Brett Harned: But if you're taking the time to work through what you need to get out of a meeting, why not take the time to work through an agenda and actually prepare your meeting attendees. So that they can not only understand the purpose of the meeting, but they can come to the table feeling like they have a purpose and a reason to contribute. To me, this is a critical step in ensuring that your meetings will be successful. I've taken this a step further and I'll talk about meeting rules in a bit, but I was in a situation where I was managing a team of project managers as well as my own set of projects among other management duties.
Brett Harned: And I was always flooded with meetings. So many meetings would come to me with a meeting title and a location, but no real detail. It was so frustrating to me because I truly had to make judgements about what I could and could not do based on just the time I had in the day. So I made a rule. If a meeting organizer did not take the time to write a meeting agenda, I would just decline the meeting. I figured if I didn't know what a meeting was about or what it was for, then why should I attend? I truly believe that all attendees deserve to know that and should have the space and the time to prepare for a meeting.
Brett Harned: And honestly, anytime someone really needed me, they would follow up and ask why I declined their meeting. And my first response was always, you didn't share an agenda for the meeting. And that was my first step in correcting a bad behavior and eventually it caught on in the whole company. But interestingly, what I found with that little experiment was that some people had no idea how to write a useful agenda or they didn't see the use because team members or managers would often just hijack their meetings and do whatever wanted in the meeting anyway.
Brett Harned: And that wasn't helpful because it made people think agendas weren't even needed. It was this kind of like vicious cycle. While it's good to be flexible about your agendas. You do have to be clear about these things. First, the discussions you'll need to facilitate in order to meet those meeting goals. Second, what information do people need in order to help you to meet that goal? Third, what people need to be involved to ensure that the goal is met and there won't be any kind of lingering decision making or conversations after the meeting. Four. Lastly, think about the limitations, meaning how can you get this work done in the least amount of time so you can feel comfortable about the validity and the quality of your discussions and decisions.
Brett Harned: And this applies not only to the time that you have in your meeting, but also in the time your meeting attendees have to prepare. Okay, so here's an example of what I see to be a thorough and helpful agenda. This took me about five minutes to write. So it's not really time consuming and as you can see, it includes the project name, the date, the time, and the location, the attendees, you're meeting goal to make sure that everyone's aligned on that, a detailed agenda with times and people responsible for those points. Those are in parentheses. And then a note about preparation.
Brett Harned: Again, this is really straightforward, but spelling out all of the details can get confusing to some people. So you use this as a template and extend it to your meetings. You can grab this template in the class downloads. Let's talk for a second about being collaborative when you're organizing meetings. I recognize that this doesn't apply to all meetings, but a problem with some meetings is that they feel like one person has a specific agenda that trumps everyone else's ideas. So if you're scheduling a meeting, be sure to take others' opinions, ideas, and requests into account.
Brett Harned: As with any other project document, it's a good idea to present a draft and ask for input or feedback. Of course, this doesn't need to happen with every meeting, but when you're planning a larger or longer or even more important meetings, run your agenda by other team members or leads. This will ensure that you're not being seen as controlling or rigid. You don't want people coming into your meeting thinking that they have no room to bring up ideas or even points that will help you and your project long term.
Brett Harned: I also want to mention here that TeamGantt serves as a really solid platform for collaborating not only on tasks, resourcing and time tracking and other work, but for meetings too. Let's take a quick look at how you can use TeamGantt to collaborate on meeting details or even just share your agenda. Okay. This feature is one that you'll find yourself using for a lot of things in TeamGantt, but what I love the most about it is that you can communicate with your team or even parts of your team at the task and milestone level.
Brett Harned: So what we're looking at here is an active plan. You can see that I have a meeting set as a milestone and I recommend doing this for bigger meetings like kickoffs, deliverable reviews, presentations, or really just any of meeting that could hold up project progress. You'll see here that when you hover over a task, you can actually comment on that task or start a conversation on a task or a milestone. So I'm going to click on that bubble and what I'm going to do here is paste in a note to my team about the meeting. So basically I'm saying, "Hey, I'm sharing a draft of our kickoff meeting. Here are all the details. Let me know if you have any suggestions or changes on this."
Brett Harned: And when I send this message, anyone who is assigned to this task, so essentially anyone who I'm kind of estimating or considering to be a part of that project or not that project. But that task or milestone, so a part of this meeting, they're going to receive an email updated about it. And then they can reply directly to that email and it'll be captured here in TeamGantt. It's as simple as that to make your meetings even more useful and actionable by using TeamGantt. So just by sharing this agenda and getting a little bit of collaboration and a little bit of input from my team, I'm feeling like the team is going to be more successful in that meeting.
Brett Harned: There's one more thing that I want to show you in TeamGantt after I send that message. I want to show you the sharing function. I often like to share a link to my plans in meeting agendas. Just because I want people to have a sense for what's happening at all times on my project. Whether they've read only access to the plan or not, this is a great context and content to give people in meetings. So what I do here is down in the footer of my browser, I'm going to click on share. And by clicking on share you can do a lot of things.
Brett Harned: So you can invite people into the plan at any level so they can have access to view only to make edits or just to be the admin of your project. You can export a PDF and you can also copy a link to a chart as well as share on Facebook and Twitter if you do some of your work on social. I like this copy link to a chart because basically I click on that. I can grab this entire link, which I'll usually make a text link or shorten and add to my meeting agendas as well as status reports. So this is really just a great way, again to keep people aligned. And that's really all I wanted to show you here. So let's get back to the class.
Brett Harned: Okay, so that was agendas. Don't skip them and be sure to be open to collaborating on them to make sure that you and your team are meeting attendees, get the most out of your meetings. Now we want to talk about a kind of formal approach to organizing meetings. And this might apply to larger, more formal gatherings, but I also think the concept of meeting roles applies to all meetings. Large or small. And I'm not just talking about meeting organizer and attendees. I'm talking about sharing ownership of the meeting by assigning roles.
Brett Harned: This doesn't go a long way and engaging your team, making them feel responsible for the success of the meeting and meeting your goals. Think about establishing meeting roles to be sure that you're truly all of your bases and all agenda items are discussed, resolved and documented. If you're on a smaller team or don't take on larger projects, that's okay. Don't stop listening now because I think understanding these roles can still definitely help you.
Brett Harned: The leader is the person who set up the meeting and has set the meeting goals. The facilitator is`` the person who makes sure that all agenda items are met and that all people get to have a voice in the meeting. The recorder takes notes and distributes them along with action items that come out of the discussion. And the timekeeper, you guessed it, is the person who makes sure the pacing of the meeting is on time so that everything in the agenda is accomplished. This might sound a little too formal for you, but it can work even if you're on a smaller team and want to use some of these roles.
Brett Harned: Take the concept of the four roles and just make sure that these things are being handled. Essentially it's first the person who holds the keys to the meeting and keeps it on track. Second, someone who takes notes and is responsible for circulating those notes. And more importantly action items that are a part of those notes. That could be one person. I know I've done all four roles as a project manager. That can be tough if you actually want to participate in the meeting, but sometimes you just have to get the job done. Other times you have to participate somehow.
Brett Harned: So consider pulling in someone else to take meeting notes or even open a Google Docs and take shared notes. No matter what you do, you have to ensure that you're able to meet the meeting goals and document it. Okay, so I mentioned rules earlier. Oh, rules that makes meetings sound even worse, but don't think about them negatively. Think about this as a way for you to make your meetings shorter and more productive. When you position them that way you'll get everyone's attention trust me.
Brett Harned: But I'll say this, maybe you don't think rules will work for your team, but maybe they will if you're finding that your meetings are kind of going off track, people aren't attending, people are attending but not listening or participating. Or if meeting morale is just down, come to an agreement on some basic meeting rules. I'm showing some possible meeting rules on screen here. These are pretty straightforward, but maybe rules that you can adapt for your projects and teams while you're in a room together trying to make some progress.
Brett Harned: I think these are pretty simple and general uses, but my favorite here is the no device role. I've used this one. Actually I was working with a team who are overbooked and I'd schedule important meetings to find that two thirds of the group were on their laptops or their phones the whole time. I'd have to ask questions more than once and get people's attention, which wasted time and frustrated the people who actually were dedicated to the meeting. But other than that, I think it's about putting guidelines in place to keep attendees focused and on task for outcomes and to follow up on them.
Brett Harned: Only you or maybe even leadership in your organization can determine it for rules actually stick. But if you're seeing a problem, try to fix it by talking about a rule or maybe just a guideline. You might be surprised by how this could help you. While rules may sound extreme, it's important to remember that it's everyone's job to make meetings useful. I know I've already said this, but again, it's important to remember that it's not all on one person to meet the goals of the meeting. Like everything else in project work, it's a team effort.
Brett Harned: So if you come to an agreement about how you'll engage in meetings and everyone agrees to the rules, you'll be more successful. Okay. Let's keep moving on here. Once you've got your initial planning agenda, roles and rules nailed it's time for the main event, the meeting itself. And if you're the facilitator of the meeting, it's really important to take that role seriously. I just want to mention that there are plenty of books, classes and guides about good facilitation.
Brett Harned: I even included a section in my own book, Project Management For Humans. I'm going to touch on just a few of the topics I covered in the book here in the hopes that you'll pick up some tactics to help you better manage your own meetings. What does a facilitator do? I already mentioned this when I talked about roles, but facilitation often gets glossed over and it shouldn't. It's an important role or even a task. In a perfect world, we'd have a person who can act as just a meeting facilitator or in an ultimately perfect world, a project facilitator. Someone who's always looking from the outside end to ask questions, to challenge ideas, resolve disagreements, and generally help the team progress.
Brett Harned: That has a lot to take on in one meeting and in reality, that work typically falls on the shoulders of the project leader. It's no easy feat. So I've come up with some core values to help you to be a great facilitator. Anyone can host a meeting, run a brainstorming session, or even collect ideas from the team. But not everyone can do it efficiently and effectively. It takes the right balance of knowledge of project goals, team expertise, timing tools, and you guessed it, facilitation skills.
Brett Harned: Before you jump into a meeting, be sure to think about what will make for a great session. I'm going to talk through these things. Being prepared, creating the right environment, ensuring expectations and outcomes are clear, being flexible and doing what works. Okay. Let's jump into these quickly. If you want to get the most out of your session, you'll prepare yourself and your team for the session. This might mean that you have to spend some time thinking about how the meeting will flow, what you'll present or what questions you'll ask the team to ignite conversation and debate.
Brett Harned: Alternately, if you need someone else on the team to take some responsibility, make sure you give them the time to prepare as well. After all, there's nothing worse than attending a meeting that feels disorganized. Meeting spaces come at a premium in many offices and in order to run an effective session, you want to be sure the work you'll do will be accommodated by the space that you have. Think about it. Will you need any of these things? Whiteboards, group seating, wall space, flip charts, sticky notes, markers, technology for remote attendees, round tables with seats, one large table.
Brett Harned: There's a lot to think about to make sure that you're accommodating for the right space for productivity. But think about it this way, the more you have prepared in terms of space and materials, the better the environment will be and the more excited your team will be to actually participate. Also, just a quick note here. If you're running a remote meeting or session, get into your meeting room 10 to 15 minutes in advance of the meeting to get the technology sorted so that you can start without any delays.
Brett Harned: We've pretty much covered this, but I do want to mention it again because the work you did leading up to the meeting will actually help you in the meeting itself. At the top of the meeting, be sure to review your agenda with the group. You may even want to discuss what meeting these goals will mean to the rest of the project. Setting context can help to keep everybody on track. Remember, your agenda and meeting goals will set expectations for the meetings. At the same time, try to set some ground rules for your meeting.
Brett Harned: For instance, if you have limited time, you might agree that any mention of an outside topic will be shut down by the facilitator and added to a list of things to discuss later. Some people call that a parking lot. Lastly, your facilitation style needs to meet the needs of the group and the goals of the meeting. For example, you may wish to facilitate by stepping back and letting conversation take place so that you can witness interactions and record decisions. Or you may lead a group exercise to see outcomes and discuss as a group.
Brett Harned: No matter what, you have to recognize that a one size fits all approach to facilitating meetings just does not work. On that note, I want to mention a few facilitation techniques. First is gatekeeping, which can help you to make sure everyone gets their turn to speak. After all, the loudest voice in the room cannot win. Everyone in a meeting should have equal footing when it comes to collaboration and discussion. With gatekeeping, all participants have an equal opportunity to influence the decision being made. As a facilitator, you can help make this happen by gate opening and gate closing.
Brett Harned: First is gate opening. There's always a quiet team member who tends to sit back and speak less or maybe not even speak at all. The problem is that person may have information and thoughts that can impact decisions or better yet help make them. As the facilitator it's your job to get those people talking. Open the gate by asking direct questions of that person. Engage them with the group. Sometimes you'll be putting them on the spot, but it's important to do when you want a well rounded, inclusive conversation.
Brett Harned: Then there's gate closing. You also can't let one person dominate a conversation or a meeting. Because when you do, you'll end up with annoyed team members who are less motivated to act on ideas. It's simple. Inclusion builds trust, motivates teams, and helps decisions to be made. So if John's dominating a meeting, simply interrupt him and ask if anyone has a perspective to add. It might feel awkward, but your team will thank you for it later and you'll get a better conversation going.
Brett Harned: Now let's talk about using props. This might sound like an endorsement of a specific merchandise found in office supplies stores and it kind of is. It's amazing how much I've worked with highly technical teams who use paper to generate ideas and consensus and also have fun. The thing is providing a hands on experience allows all participants to provide ideas or input, discuss them, merge them and even come up with visual ways to represent complex ideas. I've done this with clustering exercises where we generate ideas on sticky notes, post them all on a wall and review them as a group. Or to sketch ideas and present them in small groups to work out what those ideas could be.
Brett Harned: The thing about this is that it can make your meetings far more engaging and you can generate and discuss ideas fairly quickly. If you want some ideas for exercises to run, check out the book, Game Storming. It includes several group activities, exercises and games that generate ideas and even build consensus. It's a great book and I definitely recommend it. Next, remember to check in. By that I mean to make sure that during your meeting you're stopping to check in with the group on things like decisions, action items or resolutions.
Brett Harned: Just say something like, "Okay, I've noted an action item for Mike to extend the task and team gap. Let me know if I have to do anything else or if the details are right." Or something like that. I think you get it. Simple check-ins like that ensure that everyone is engaged not only in the current conversation but the recording of the notes and the outcomes. This is a simple facilitation trick that can really, really help you.
Brett Harned: Lastly, there's conflict. It can often happen in meetings and it can be unnerving and frustrating in or out of work. That said, it can be good and some people actually like it because it can encourage new ways of thinking, approaching, discussing and solving problems or challenges. If handled respectfully, it can help team members to build trust and solid working relationships because they build a mutual understanding and conflict is resolved. And they end up respecting one another, but that doesn't always happen and conflict is still tough to embrace.
Brett Harned: So here are a few things you can do when conflict arises in your meetings. First, I just want to mention that conflict is tricky because you pretty much never know what you're going to get. You might send someone's opinion or know about preexisting issues or conflict or you may not. But think about conflict in terms of real professional differences. And then think about power struggles or personality related issues. The ladder is clearly more difficult to navigate, but I've got some points to help you turn a boil into a simmer.
Brett Harned: First is a repeat. You know all about agendas and rules and this is a place where they'll actually help you. If you run your tightly, there'll be less room for conflict. Your agendas will at least set the expectation for staying on track and using another time or place to argue. And as an extra precaution you could add meeting specific rules to your agenda. Think about imposing meetings specific rules like raising your hand. Everyone gets a turn or an amount of time. These could be helpful when you know you're meeting with someone who tries to dominate the group. I'm sure you could come up with others based on the people that you work with.
Brett Harned: Next when you spot conflict as a facilitator, this is where you should actually embrace it. All you have to do is break in on the conversation or dispute and acknowledge what's happening. And ask the people involved if they think we're on the right path in the conversation to meet the meeting's goals. Just put it out there, be all business. Get them to think a logically about the work you are all there to do together. Sometimes you have to make it uncomfortable. If you do it, it will either lead them to deferring to you or to a discussion that you can still facilitate and be neutral about. And they'll respect you for it.
Brett Harned: Another way to change the course of the conversation is to do some directing. Essentially interject yourself and question something. Don't ask a yes or no kind of question. Ask what something means, how it impacts the project and its goals or just ask for more detail. Doing that can encourage people to provide information rather than state that they're angry or dislike or disagree with something. And really great facilitators do an awesome job with this technique because they're engaged in the meeting and want the best for everyone involved.
Brett Harned: So getting a little awkward is totally worth it. That conversation can then lead to the resolution of the conflict or at least an agreement to table it for the sake of the meeting itself. There are many ways that could go, but simply not being bashful and asking questions can help. And of course sometimes the meeting goal just has to be met with or without some people. So you might just either have to ask the people involved to table the issue for the time being or take it elsewhere. No matter what be sure that you take the time to follow up afterward and try to resolve the conflict after the meeting.
Brett Harned: And that's all I have for you for tips to resolve conflict. It's a tough topic because it's very situational, but hopefully these tactics can help you. Okay. So hopefully what I've presented so far is helpful to you. I'm guessing there are some people sitting here thinking, great, we do that, we could try that thing. But really our meetings are just broken. I want those people to know that this is common. This is really true of meetings like standups, reoccurring check-ins that can really kind of be a time suck or just feel like an unnecessary break in a productive day.
Brett Harned: I've personally seen and experienced this and I've even seen team morale tank because of the time suck. The best way to get good meeting vibes back is to figure out what the issue is and simply make adjustments. A quick and easy way to evaluate these recurring meetings is to ask and even your team some pretty simple questions. First, ask yourself the goal of the meeting. I have to say, if you don't know why you're meeting cancel or decline that meeting immediately. I've worked with teams who have had this issue with meetings.
Brett Harned: I've asked what's the goal of the meeting and someone will say, "Well, it started as a team check-in and nobody wanted to come, so we added resourcing to it. Then we went to another format. It happens." But it also happens to make it difficult to answer. The second question, which is are we meeting the goal? And if you're not meeting the goal, it's time to figure out a different meeting agenda to meet your meeting goal. If you are meeting the goal and people are unhappy, you'll need to figure that out too. As soon as you understand why people are unhappy, you should be able to fix the meeting as well.
Brett Harned: I think it's important to remember that there's no single format or agenda for a meeting. We can get caught in these horrible meetings that are a boring run through of an agenda that meets a goal but doesn't truly excite or even engage everyone. But there's no rule saying you can't mix it up and try new things. If you think about approaching the meeting like you would approach a project, you'll plan it the way that makes the most sense to you and to the people attending your meeting. That'll definitely make it more interesting and certainly more enjoyable.
Brett Harned: So feel free to get creative. Use the tips provided earlier to facilitate fun meetings and get stuff done. All right. That's all we have on meetings. I hope I've proven to you that meetings aren't a bad word. You can use them to actually work for you. Just remember, everyone's responsible for making meetings great, but if you're responsible for setting them up, you have a lot of work to do. Check out the class download so you can practice writing solid agendas and facilitating great meetings. If you have any followup questions or comments, please feel free to leave a comment and we'll get back to you. Join us for the next class in the art and science of leading projects, which is all about time management.